Post Office investigator says he was by no means informed of points with Horizon

A Post Office fraud investigator at the moment informed an inquiry he was by no means knowledgeable of points with the Horizon IT system by superiors and is ‘not technically minded’ – as he denied ‘performing life a Mafia gangster’. 

Stephen Bradshaw has been employed on the Post Office since 1978 and was concerned within the prison investigation of 9 subpostmasters, together with Lisa Brennan, a former counter clerk at a publish workplace in Huyton, close to Liverpool. 

She was wrongly convicted of stealing £3,000 in 2003, resulting in a spiral of distress that noticed her lose her marriage and try an overdose earlier than changing into homeless along with her daughter – counting on relations for meals. 

Appearing as a witness to the Post Office Horizon inquiry this morning, Mr Bradshaw stated he was by no means informed of issues concerning the accounting software program ‘from the folks above’ and didn’t have the technical information to know whether or not it was defective. 

He denied claims he and others ‘behaved like Mafia gangsters’ who had been trying to acquire ‘bounty with the threats and lies’ from subpostmasters. It follows the revelation that fraud investigators acquired a bonus for every postmaster they jailed. 

Mr Bradshaw additionally informed the inquiry {that a} 2012 assertion signed by him declaring the Post Office’s ‘absolute confidence’ in Horizon was written by legal professionals from the legislation agency Cartwright King. 

Mr Bradshaw has additionally been accused by fellow Merseyside subpostmistress Rita Threlfall of asking her for the color of her eyes and what jewelry she wore earlier than saying: ‘Good, so we have an outline of you for once they come’, throughout her interview underneath warning in August 2010.’ 

Another subpostmistress, Jacqueline McDonald, claimed she was ‘bullied’ by the investigator throughout an investigation into her alleged £50,000 shortfall.

Responding to Ms McDonald’s claims in his assertion, the witness stated: ‘I refute the allegation that I’m a liar.

‘I additionally refute the declare that Jacqueline McDonald was bullied, from the second we arrived, the auditor was already on website, conversations had been initially (held) with Mr McDonald, the rationale for our attendance was defined, Mr and Mrs McDonald had been saved up to date because the day progressed.’

The investigator added: ‘Ms Jacqueline McDonald can be incorrect in stating Post Office investigators behaved like Mafia gangsters trying to acquire their bounty with the threats and lies.’

Throughout his witness assertion, Mr Bradshaw stated his investigations had been carried out in a ‘skilled’ method.

Counsel to the inquiry Julian Blake first requested the witness: ‘Do you assume that you’ve given sufficient thought over the previous 20 years as as to whether you could have been concerned in what has been described as one of many largest miscarriages of justice in British historical past?’

Mr Bradshaw replied: ‘It would seem that by way of not being given any information from prime downwards that if any bugs, errors or defects had been there it isn’t been cascaded down from Fujitsu, the Post Office board all the way down to our degree because the investigations supervisor.

‘I had no motive to suspect on the time that there was something unsuitable with the Horizon system as a result of we might not been informed. The investigations had been achieved appropriately.

‘The investigations had been achieved on the time, no issues had been indicated by anyone that there was points with the Horizon system.’

Seeking to ascertain when Mr Bradshaw turned conscious of issues with Horizon, counsel Mr Blake introduced up an e-mail during which a colleague despatched the investigator a listing of hyperlinks to information articles reporting on issues concerning the system. 

He additionally confirmed the inquiry an e-mail from Mr Bradshaw to the Horizon name centre during which he requested for a log of calls in relation to issues with the software program.

‘Didn’t that trigger you pause for thought?’ Mr Blake requested.

Mr Bradshaw replied that he took this info under consideration, however was not ‘technically minded’ and would anticipate that to come back from the ‘folks above’.

Mr Bradshaw informed the inquiry {that a} assertion signed by him declaring the Post Office’s ‘absolute confidence’ within the Horizon IT system was written by legal professionals from the legislation agency Cartwright King.

The assertion signed by the investigator in November 2012 stated: ‘The Post Office continues to have absolute confidence within the robustness and integrity of its Horizon system.’

Asked if it was acceptable for him to declare ‘confidence’ within the IT system within the 2012 assertion, he stated: ‘I used to be provided that assertion by Cartwright King and informed to place that assertion by way of.

‘In hindsight…there most likely ought to have been one other line stating, ‘These aren’t my phrases’.’

The statutory inquiry, which started in 2021 and is chaired by retired decide Sir Wyn Williams, has beforehand seemed on the human influence of the scandal, the Horizon system roll-out and the working of the system, and is now probing the motion taken in opposition to subpostmasters.

The probe was established to make sure there’s a ‘public abstract of the failings which occurred with the Horizon IT system on the Post Office’ and subsequently led to the wrongful convictions of subpostmasters. 

Counsel to the inquiry Mr Blake put to Mr Bradshaw that he ‘pressed on’ with investigating subpostmistress Jacqueline McDonald as a result of the problem of ‘Horizon integrity would have a wider influence on the enterprise’.

Mr Blake confirmed Mr Bradshaw his ‘self-appraisal’ of Ms McDonald’s case, during which he stated: ‘The offender pleaded responsible to false accounting however wouldn’t settle for theft.

‘I challenged the suggestions of the barrister and persuaded him {that a} trial could be crucial, as the rationale given by the defendant, Horizon integrity, would have a wider influence on the enterprise if a trial didn’t go forward.’

Mr Blake then requested the witness: ‘It appears, actually from your personal suggestions, from your personal appraisal, that you just noticed it as indirectly career-boosting to press on with Ms McDonald’s case due to issues with the Horizon system having a wider influence on the enterprise, do you not settle for that?’

Mr Bradshaw responded: ‘The concern would been mentioned with the prosecution barrister, as you are properly conscious, whenever you’re filling in one-to-ones, there’s at all times a flamboyant manner of placing the phrases throughout.’  

It’s beforehand emerged that one other Post Office investigator who dismissed Horizon victims as ‘crooks’ was given money bonuses for every postmaster that was convicted. 

Long-serving worker Gary Thomas informed the Post Office Horizon inquiry an incentive scheme together with ‘bonus goals’ had influenced his behaviour as an investigator. 

In one e-mail trade with a colleague whereas he was the lead investigator within the case of posthumously cleared postmaster Julian Wilson, the safety group employee stated he wished to show there was ‘no ‘Case for the Justice of Thieving Subposters’.’

Mr Wilson was wrongfully convicted of stealing £27,000 at his Post Office in Astwood Bank, Worcestershire, in 2008. He died aged 67 from bowel most cancers in 2016 and did not dwell to see his title cleared.

His conviction was overturned 5 years later in 2021. His widow, Karen, has since stated her husband had talked about suicide and believed the burdened brought on by the Horizon IT scandal had contributed to his early loss of life.

It comes as campaigner Alan Bates stated the authorized combat will proceed for some postmasters after the Government made an preliminary supply of simply £75,000 compensation to those that had been hounded by the Post Office – and needed to pay again money – however who had been by no means convicted of any offence. 

Mr Thomas was proven an e-mail chain between himself and a colleague in 2015 as he gave proof to the inquiry during which he stated he was ‘happy’ to get paperwork regarding Mr Wilson’s case, reported The Telegraph. 

When requested why, he wrote again: ‘Because I wish to show that there’s FFFFiiinnn no ‘Case for the Justice of Thieving Subpostmasters’ and that we had been one of the best Investigators they ever had they usually had been all crooks!!’

He admitted throughout proof that his phrases had been ‘completely disgraceful’ and he was ’embarrassed’ for inferring that everybody was responsible.

Shamed former Post Office chief Paula Vennells has already succumbed to mounting strain and handed again her CBE over the fallout, and now she could also be pressured to pay again £2million in bonuses if the inquiry finds her as a ‘responsible celebration’.

Postal affairs minister Kevin Hollinrake informed the BBC that eradicating her bonuses ‘could possibly be a sanction we place on her’. 

Ms Vennells, 64, pocketed greater than £100,000 a 12 months in bonuses on prime of her £320,000 a 12 months wage.

It noticed her cash swell by £2.2million over her seven-year tenure as Post Office chief from 2012 till she stepped down in 2019 – the identical 12 months she acquired her greatest payout of £245,000, reported The Times. 

It emerged yesterday that lots of of wrongly-convicted department managers may have their names cleared by the top of the 12 months.

Blanket laws to exonerate subpostmasters convicted in England and Wales might be launched inside weeks and Prime Minister Rishi Sunak stated they had been victims of ‘one of many best miscarriages of justice in our nation’s historical past’.

The long-running battle for justice accelerated dramatically after ITV broadcast the drama Mr Bates Vs The Post Office, which highlighted the scandal earlier this month. 

Alan Bates, the campaigning former sub-postmaster an ITV drama centred on, welcomed the ‘excellent news’ however stated the combat just isn’t over for a lot of of these nonetheless awaiting compensation.

‘It is a leap ahead, but it surely ain’t over but,’ he informed BBC Radio 4’s The World At One programme.

‘The satan is within the element and we’re but to see that. We’re nonetheless going to need to maintain pushing the entire concern ahead till everyone seems to be sorted.’

Mr Sunak was praised by Kate Middleton’s ex postmaster after the PM unveiled a legislation to quash convictions. 

Hasmukh Shingadia, 63, used to serve Haribo and Doritos to the Princess of Wales and her sister Pippa at his Spar and Post Office in Upper Bucklebury, Berkshire, once they had been youngsters.

Mr Shingadia informed MailOnline: ‘To all the opposite sub-postmasters, it is fantastic actually.

‘They will have the ability to go round with their heads held excessive.’

His conviction was overturned in 2021, a lot to the delight of his area people in West Berkshire.

‘The drama… it is struck a chord in folks’s hearts.

‘People have began crying within the store in entrance of me, saying now they perceive what I should have gone by way of – me, my daughters, my spouse.

‘That drama actually drove some extent residence.

‘Thank you very a lot for Alan Bates, to Jo Hamilton and to MP James Arbuthnot.

‘If it hadn’t been for them, we would not have gotten to the place we’re at the moment.

‘Now it is out within the open.’

He stated the massive bosses ‘need to’ see jail time and ‘have gotten to be held to account’. 

Yet for now, he stated folks must let the inquiry proceed.

He stated: ‘They knew all alongside one thing was unsuitable however nothing was achieved.

‘They knew all alongside there was a fault with the system.’

He added: ‘They actually need to reply questions and clarify why all this went on and why they ruined so many lives and companies.’ 

Hundreds of subpostmasters had been convicted of swindling cash on the idea of proof from the flawed Horizon accounting system, with MPs informed the Post Office confirmed ‘not solely incompetence however malevolence’ in the way in which it acted in opposition to them.

The scale of the scandal has prompted the Government to undertake the unconventional method of recent laws, quite than requiring people to problem their convictions.

Ministers acknowledged the plan may end in some subpostmasters who did commit crimes being wrongly cleared, however insisted the method was the best manner of coping with the overwhelming majority who had been victims of a miscarriage of justice.

Downing Street stated the ‘ambition’ was for the plan to be applied by the top of the 12 months.

At Prime Minister’s Questions yesterday, Mr Sunak stated: ‘This is without doubt one of the best miscarriages of justice in our nation’s historical past.

‘People who labored onerous to serve their communities had their lives and their reputations destroyed by way of completely no fault of their very own. The victims should get justice and compensation.’

Those whose convictions are quashed are eligible for a £600,000 compensation cost, or doubtlessly extra in the event that they undergo a course of of getting their declare individually assessed.

Mr Sunak additionally introduced a £75,000 supply for subpostmasters concerned in a bunch authorized motion in opposition to the Post Office – with ministers setting apart as much as £1 billion for compensation.

Mr Hollinrake informed MPs that simply 95 out of greater than 900 convictions have been overturned.

The common technique for overturning a conviction would see the Criminal Cases Review Commission sending it to the Court of Appeal for a listening to. 

But the unprecedented scale of the Horizon scandal means the Government is introducing the laws route quite than counting on a doubtlessly prolonged courtroom course of.

Justice Secretary Alex Chalk has been discussing the state of affairs with senior judges due to the constitutional concern about Parliament being seen to intrude with the authorized system.

The Horizon software program began to be rolled out in Post Office branches throughout the UK in 1999 and over the next years a collection of subpostmasters had been prosecuted over lacking funds.

In 2019 the High Court dominated that Horizon contained quite a few ‘bugs, errors and defects’ and there was a ‘materials danger’ that shortfalls in Post Office department accounts had been brought on by the system.

Mr Hollinrake acknowledged the Government’s plan would end in some individuals who really did commit crimes having their convictions quashed and with the ability to declare compensation.

But he insisted it’s one of the simplest ways to deal with swiftly the injustice suffered by these caught up within the Horizon scandal who’ve seen ‘lives ruined by this brutal and arbitrary train of energy’.

‘Some of these convictions may have relied on the proof of the discredited Horizon system. Others may have been the results of appalling failures of the Post Office’s investigation and prosecution features,’ he stated.

He stated proof from the general public inquiry into the Post Office scandal confirmed ‘not solely incompetence however malevolence in lots of their actions’.

Mr Hollinrake acknowledged the Government’s novel method was not ‘foolproof’.

‘I’m positive that an ideal many individuals had been wrongly convicted on this scandal, however I can not inform the House that every one these prosecuted had been certainly harmless, and even that it was 90 per cent or 80 per cent or 70 per cent. Without retrying each case we can not know.

‘The danger is that as a substitute of unjust convictions, we will find yourself with unjust acquittals and we simply have no idea what number of.’

He added: ‘As far as attainable, we wish to keep away from responsible folks strolling away with lots of of hundreds of kilos of public cash. But we can not make the supply of compensation topic to an in depth examination of guilt.’

As a safeguard, these concerned will signal a press release saying they didn’t commit the crime of which they had been accused, with anybody subsequently discovered to have signed that untruthfully placing themselves susceptible to prosecution for fraud.

It got here as Post Office department managers have informed how their lives had been torn aside by the Horizon scandal – and what number of are nonetheless ready for correct redress.

News that the convicted could be exonerated because of a brand new legislation, as introduced by Rishi Sunak, was handled with warning by many who stay suspicious of the authorities.

Will Harrison noticed his mom Sam die final 12 months aged 54 with out receiving correct redress for the losses inflicted on her. He stated he had heard too many unfulfilled guarantees. He stated: ‘It’s all very properly the politicians standing there making guarantees, however I will not imagine it till I see it. They are solely doing stuff now as a result of it is a lot within the public eye. Why did not they care this a lot over the past 20 years?

‘People like [former Post Office boss] Paula Vennells should be in courtroom. Many households had been left destitute. My poor mum was one in all them. And no person is getting the compensation they deserve.’

Sam Harrison was one of many 555 claimants within the Bates v Post Office High Court case on which the ITV drama was based mostly. She ran a tiny Post Office in Nawton, North Yorks, within the early 2000s.

The defective Horizon system wrongly reported a £3,000 shortfall. Sam solely averted prosecution by paying again the cash.

Mr Harrison, 33, of York, added: ‘We can solely draw a line underneath this when everybody receives full compensation, a full apology from the Post Office and the Government, and everybody accountable is held to account.’

Alison Hall ran a publish workplace in Liversedge, West Yorkshire. She was suspended in 2010 over a shortfall of £15,000. She admitted false accounting, however her conviction was overturned three years in the past. She stated: ‘This has been a residing nightmare. Nobody from the Post Office has ever apologised.’

Lee Castleton, a former sub-postmaster from Bridlington, East Yorkshire, was pursued for the reimbursement of £25,000 at his Marine Drive department. The married father-of-two, who’s portrayed within the ITV drama by Will Mellor, was not criminally prosecuted however his failed authorized motion to problem the debt led to him being held answerable for £321,000 in authorized prices and he was later declared bankrupt.

Last night time, he solid doubt on the brand new legislation to robotically clear all those that had been convicted. He stated: ‘[Post Office minister Kevin Hollinrake] stated there could also be some responsible folks in there.

‘People should signal a doc that stated they hadn’t dedicated fraud, however with the caveat they’d prosecute anyone who had misled them, it appears like everybody might be tarred with a small little bit of suspicion.’

Mohammed Rasul was convicted of false accounting over a £12,000 shortfall at his publish workplace, which he paid again. He stated: ‘I labored for them for 27 years. I needed to put on a tag for 3 months and was given a suspended sentence 12 months.

‘I’ve carried the disgrace ever since. I turned a complete recluse. The solely folks I noticed frequently had been my mother and father and my spouse.

‘Although I knew I hadn’t achieved it, it was simply the stigma connected. You needed to clarify if anybody requested what had occurred.’

Janet Skinner labored for the Post Officefor 12 years till 2006 when she was suspended for a shortfall of £59,000. She was jailed for 9 months and served three months, with the remaining on residence curfew. Speaking about her time in jail, she stated: ‘It’s horrendous, it is the worst factor you would undergo.’

Scott Darlington ran Alderley Edge Post Office, in Cheshire, for 4 years earlier than he was convicted in 2010. He could not get one other job for 3 and a half years.

He stated: ‘I could not afford to pay for my daughter’s faculty uniform. I suffered terrible stigma and embarrassment and monetary misery ever since.’

Vipin Patel, from Oxford, was wrongfully prosecuted in 2011 over supposed shortfalls. His conviction was one of many very first to be overturned at Southwark Crown Court in 2020, however he has but to obtain a penny in compensation. Son Varchas stated: ‘His well being was shattered and he hasn’t but acquired any compensation.’

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