EastEnders or Corrie? Ross Kemp takes on Tracy Brabin within the ‘greatest cleaning soap’ debate

In the shadow of the Palace of Westminster, people have stopped to listen to a couple arguing on a park bench.

“Obviously, Coronation Street is the best soap on God’s earth,” the woman is saying, in a Yorkshire accent. “Apart from EastEnders of course!” the man retorts in estuary English.

“I can’t be doing with Eastenders because it’s too much shouting,” the woman says. “I can’t be doing with Coronation Street because it’s old-fashioned.” The woman laughs. “It’s not cool any more to be from the South!”

Both people on the park bench have a vested interest in the Corrie v ‘Enders debate, and the North-South divide. In the cobbles’ corner, is Tracy Brabin – who once played the Street’s tricky Tricia Armstrong, and is now the Mayor of West Yorkshire. Standing up for Albert Square is Ross Kemp, who makes up one half of the legendary Mitchell brothers – and is about to become even more of a household name with an appearance in Celebrity Traitors.

But while the pair agree to disagree on a whole host of things from the soaps, Yorkshire tea to the capital’s expensive pints, and whether London or Leeds is the best for culture, they agree on one thing. “We’ve got to find common ground,” Tracy says. “Disagreements are leading to these horrendous disturbances on the streets.”

Ross nods. “The most important thing is that we’ve got to learn to listen again,” he says. “Because I think we have lost that capacity. Because of the way the media works, the way that mobile phones work – in the way that people want to talk at people, rather than listening – I think we have lost the art of listening, and of agreeing to disagree without taking an extreme position.”

Tracy and Ross have agreed to meet each other on a fresh autumn morning in a Westminster park to try out ‘Britain Talks’ – the Mirror’s dialogue experiment – aimed at helping people to disagree better. It’s a masterclass in how to have a great conversation, with good disagreement, humour and being prepared to change your mind.

To mark the tenth anniversary of Jo Cox’s murder, the Mirror is inviting thousands of people to sign up this autumn, to be matched with someone with opposing views for dialogue and discussion.

Over summer, once again tensions have reached fever pitch, with men dressed in black and wearing balaclavas deliberately blocking our ports. And, following the murder of Jo and David Amess, we have seen the violent death of yet another high-profile politician, this time Anne Widdecombe, the former Conservative minister turned Reform Party spokeswoman.

It is a subject very close to Tracy’s heart. Born in Batley, West Yorks, her experiences of growing up in poverty led her to want to go into politics, something she had discussed with her local MP Jo Cox. After her friend was killed for her political beliefs, she stood for Jo’s seat of Batley and Spen and won, before later becoming the Mayor of West Yorkshire.

“We’ve got to find another way of talking to each other, because we know where it leads,” Tracy says now, to Ross. “You know how I came into politics, after the tragic murder of Jo. We have had the murder of Sir David Amess, and tragically now the death of Anne Widdecombe, different political parties. That’s where the binary arguments lead – people get so entrenched in their thinking that they take awful decisions.”

Ross is also someone who has thought deeply about dialogue, as an ambassador for the Together Coalition, and for the ‘National Conversation’ – a UK-wide public listening initiative designed to gather insights on community life, social cohesion, and how people want to live well together.

He says he thinks dialogue is something “that is very British – we have always been about fair play – and I think we are losing that culturally and also because of technology.”

Tracy agrees. “Social media has reduced our arguments to headlines, and that’s what is the tragedy – that you can’t have these conversations to unpick where you can find that common ground. “It’s ‘you believe this, I believe that and we will always be at each other’s throats’. We’ve got to find another way of talking to each other.”

Both Tracy and Ross believe people’s views are being manipulated by outside influences. “If we were a lit bit more patient and a bit more understanding, maybe we wouldn’t allow our views to become so manipulated into becoming so extreme,” Ross says.

Tracy agrees. “Because it’s not the people who think these things, it is the bad actors from outside who want to escalate their thinking… the people from Belarus, Russia, wherever, the online social media barons who are driving this thinking,” the Mayor says. “I just say, release yourself from that grip – you are being controlled by others. Know your own mind, have your own opinions, instead of the opinion someone else has told you to have.”

Ross shifts in his seat. “And also don’t just follow one line. Be prepared to listen to other people’s opinions so you get a 360 view rather than a rather narrow view.” Ross and Tracy are soon arguing again – but nicely, not like Pat and Peggy. “Coronation Street has the working class voices, the wit, the one-liners and the matriarchs, the dry humour and the grit,” says Tracy, whose character Tricia once gave birth in the Rovers, and who first appeared when her son Jamie was accused of shoplifting at Bettabuys.

Ross shakes his head. “Eastenders has the best cliff-hangers – the ‘duf-duf-duf’ will always work for me.” Since Eastenders, the multi-award-winning actor has written several books and made countless TV appearances across drama, documentary, investigative journalism, and even hosts gameshows, but who can forget the ‘duf-duf’ moment of ‘Sharongate’ when Grant revealed Sharon’s affair with his brother Phil to a shocked Queen Vic?

The pair almost agree over whether Den and Ange’s Christmas Special in 1987 – “Happy Christmas, Ange!” – was the best ever soap moment. “What made Eastenders so ground-breaking when it started in 1985 – and I hate to quote numbers at you, but Den and Angie, 30 million viewers,” Ross says. “The biggest ever soap audience.”

Tracy laughs. “I was one of them!” she says. “But did it change legislation? “When my character Tricia Armstrong went to prison for not paying her TV license there were questions in this place behind us, the House of Commons. It changed the law, because there was a Panorama programme after it saying that women should not be put into prison because they can’t pay their telly license.”

Tracy’s last appearance as Tricia aired on 2 May 1997 – the day Tony Blair took office as PM. Ross’s character Grant has a habit of returning for explosive storylines. Ross says Eastenders brings the grit. “Eastenders has taken on issues even documentaries wouldn’t take on,” he says.

Tracy shrugs. “You might be right about the grit,” she says, “but everybody wants to see a show with a knicker factory in it, don’t they?” Ross has his own ‘duf-duf’ moment up his sleeve. “You were in Eastenders!” He accuses Tracy. “I was,” she admits. “I played the madam who got Zoe on the game, and got head-butted by Kat Slater.”

Having outed Roxy Drake, Ross has one more card to play. “Well, I played Dolly’s illegitimate son, Graham Lodsworth in Emmerdale Farm, before it was Emmerdale,” he says, conspiratorially. “I keep that quiet!” Tracy is laughing. “Did you have a Northern accent, I’d like to see that.”

“Attempted,” Ross admits, and gives it a go. “Alright Dolly Skilbeck..” Tracy somehow resists the urge to shout: “Get outta my park!”

Watch the full ‘When Tracy met Ross’ film here

BRITAIN TALKS EXPLAINED

It’s time for our country to talk.

After another summer of unrest and protest, we are calling on the nation to join a brand new version of ‘Britain Talks’, our ground-breaking conversation project.

All you have to do is answer a few questions about how you see the world, and tell us a couple of things about yourself as a conversation starter.

Then using unique technology pioneered by our partners, My Country Talks, we will match you to someone who sees it differently – and support you to meet online or safely in person for a chat.

It’s time to get our country back from extremists, and to start to build bridges not walls.

Sign up to Britain Talks, here.

BRITAIN TALKS AT LABOUR

Britain Talks is at Labour Party Conference with Tracy Brabin and guests – 3pm, this Sunday in the Wye Room, ACC (Secure zone)