Sunak v Starmer – THE VERDICT: MailOnline panel have their say

Voters have given a damning verdict for Keir Starmer following a second head-to-head debate between Rishi Sunak and the Labour leader – as the Prime Minister bruised his opposition in a fiery performance.

Attacks were thrown from each side in the BBC studio as the Prime Minister and the Labour leader locked horns over welfare, taxation and immigration.

It comes after a hectic week for both parties – as at least five Tory candidates are being investigated by the Gambling Commission, with a further Labour candidate being suspended by the party for betting that he would lose his own contest.

And with just a week to go before the nation casts its votes, MailOnline’s panel of readers, who have been called upon to provide verdicts after each televised debate on the campaign, said that Sunak was far more convincing over immigration and taxation.

But they admitted that Starmer had won them over by swiftly dealing with the gambling scandal.

As they react to the second-to-last debate of the election season, this is what they have to say…

‘Where are they going to go? He’s not answering that one’ : Cancer patient Denise Clarke, 59

Amid leaders’ debate, Denise Clarke, 59, praised Labour for quickly dealing with the gambling standards, although she admitted that he did not seem to have a plan for the future.

But Denise – who is currently on Universal Credit after a cancer diagnosis meant she had to give up her job at Asda supermarket – said that he had a point when he spoke about bringing down waiting lists and getting people back to work.

Denise, from Lewisham, South London said: ‘Keir Starmer acted faster in the gambling situation – he suspended somebody straight away whereas the Prime Minister was holding it off.

‘The waiting lists do have to be dealt with and we won’t get people back to work if they’re sick, and they will be sick because they’re waiting so long for an operation, so that does need to be dealt with. Keir Starmer has that point.

‘Combining the waiting lists with getting back to work seems to make sense to me. Get people off the waiting lists, get their operations done, get them back healthy so they can go to work. I’m sure most of them want to – I know I want to!

‘The gangs do need to be taken down buyt they can’t just let everybody in. We don;t have space for everybody. I don’t quite know what Keir Starmer’s going to do about that.

‘I think the processing does need to be done but at the same time where are they going to go? He’s not answering that one, is he.’

But speaking after the debate, damning Denise denounced Rishi Sunak’s debate performance as ‘the last stand of a desperate man’.

The mother-of-four said Sunak came across as ‘very confrontational’ and ‘rude’ during the BBC showdown.

Denise, from Lewisham, south London, said: ‘Rishi kept taking over everyone – Keir couldn’t get a word in edgeways.

‘I thought he came across as aggressive, to be honest. Like it was the last stand of a desperate man.

‘And when he did answer questions, they weren’t candid answers in his own words. He just spouted lines from his spin doctors – ‘do not surrender to Labour’ – every time. It was the same old line he kept parroting.’

Denise voted Conservative at the 2019 general election but after watching all the televised debates will now ‘firmly ‘vote for Labour next week.

She said: ‘Keir Starmer came across genuine and composed and seemed to answer his questions calmly.

‘I think it is a form of honesty that when you’re asked a question, you give an answer.

‘Giving a hundred different answers is the same to me as not having an answer at all, and that’s what I thought Rishi did a lot of.’

When the leaders were challenged about integrity in politics, Denise accused Mr Sunak of having a track record that let him down.

She said: ‘When all this stuff about MPs gambling emerged, Keir acted immediately and suspended the Labour candidate.

‘Rishi held onto it for a while before taking any action and probably hoped the problem would go away.

‘We’ve seen the Tories do the same thing in the past, where they’ve thought they could just sweep things under carpet.’

Denise is reliant on Universal Credit and Personal Independent Payment handouts after having to quit her job to undergo treatment for kidney cancer.

She agreed numbers on the welfare state were too high, as was mentioned by both leaders during the debate, and needed to be brought down.

But she said that she felt Mr Starmer was best placed to overhaul the system. He told the audience in Nottingham that cutting NHS waiting lists would bring down those reliant on handouts.

Denise said: ‘Rishi kept ramming on about tax, tax, tax. I don’t think it matters who comes in, our taxes are going to go up.

‘But at least Keir is trying to sort the welfare state out by getting the hospital waiting lists down.

‘I had to leave my job last July. If I hadn’t had to wait so long to be seen by the NHS then perhaps I could have gone back to work sooner.

‘I would dearly love to go back to work. I love working and I don’t want to be reliant on the state.

‘But one of my appointments is not until 2025 so I doubt that I will be able to for some time.’

 ‘Neither of the two managed to cut through’: Student Archie Parker-Goff, 21

Student Archie Parker-Goff told how he believed neither of the two political heavyweights managed to cut through BBC TV debate – but admitted that the audience seemed to be siding with Sunak.

Archie, 21, from Chester, said: ‘I think neither of the two candidates really managed to cut through just with so much that’s going on.

‘While Starmer tried to illustrate what he thought and get back on message of those who can work should work, I think the audience in the auditorium responded more positively to Rishi, who pointed to some sick note reform that he tried to put through, and indeed, the Labor Party’s recent record at voting against all of these measures.

‘I think Starmer did well to point out that he’s got experience as leader of the CPS in the past working with international police organizations. 

‘But the audience was more vocal in its support when Rishi pointed towards the Rwanda scheme. 

‘[It was] by no means conclusive, but I think Rishi probably looked stronger than he has done in previous debates.’

‘Keir Starmer is the clear leader’: Lawyer Benedict Sharrock-Harris, 32 

Lawyer Benedict Sharrock-Harris said that Keir Starmer was the ‘clear leader’ following the BBC debate.

The 32-year-old said that the Labour leader’s ideas were ‘realistic’ – whereas the Prime Minister was givingout ‘soundbites’.

He said: ‘I would say there is a clear leader between the two, and it is Keir Starmer.

‘Lnlike how many media outlets would put for a long time, it is clear that Labor is the party that is trusted on the economy and Keir Starmer was much more comfortable on this, and he seemed to be more realistic.

‘Whereas Rishi Sunak was just pushing sound bites again and again, running the same few things on taxes, talking about surrender again and again, saying that he was going to be compassionate to people on benefits, whereas it’s clear that all that they want to do is attack people on benefits, suggesting that they are lazy and that there is money to be cut here, and there are people who should be in work who are not just because they are lazy.

‘I think one of the best blows that Keir Starmer landed was that if he actually talked to people, he wouldn’t be so out of touch. And that went down really well with the audience.

‘Surprisingly, even on immigration, I think labor did better. They had a referred to it as a national security issue, which I think was a bit unfortunate, but certainly nothing like Rishi Sunak’s attack on people who are fleeing desperate situations, referring to them jumping the queue, calling them illegal migrants.

‘I think it was a good statement from Keir Starmer about the timing of the election asking why Rishi Sunak had done this prior to the first Rwanda flights going off, if it was such a wonderful thing. 

‘Immigration is going to be Keir’s downfall’: Dover fisherman Matt Coker, 44

Dover fisherman Matt Coker, 44, said that Sunak got the better of Starmer over immigration – and it would be the Labour leader’s downfall.

He said he did not seem to have ‘the details’ and Sunak was giving some much better answers.

He said: ‘We are halfway through now, and, and at the start, it was fairly neck and neck as far as I was concerned.

‘Because, you know, I think Keir does talk a good argument – I mean, that was obviously his profession for a while.

‘And I think they were both making it sound like they really did want to make a difference. 

‘But then the thing is, with Starmer, he doesn’t seem to have much in the way of the facts and figures and the background. And Sunak was actually giving some good answers, some really good answers. 

‘And he does argue well, you know, you can tell he is quite passionate about what he wants to do, and he wants to do it whether people will think it’s right or wrong. And I think that’s quite good to see.

‘And then the immigration question came, and I do think that is going to be the downfall for Keir Starmer, because he really expanded on nothing in that. He just says the same thing.’

Speaking after the debate, he blasted Labour and Starmer as ‘letdowns’ and said the debate convinced him further to vote Tory.

He said: ‘Starmer can talk a good argument and that was his job for many years.

‘I think Sunak came out fighting tonight. He gave really good answers. He wants it. He’s been through a lot in the last few months and has always had a lot to deal with. I respect that. I think that shows.

‘When it comes to immigration tonight, I think Starmer was poor. He doesn’t have answers. He doesn’t have any substance.

‘All he says and talks about is smashing the gangs. But there’s more to it than that. I don’t like the way he keeps chopping and changing his mind. His opinions are always changing. He cannot give a straight answer.

‘I will vote for Sunak. Starmer says he wants to help people and paints a really nice picture but has no substance. He doesn’t say how he will do it. It’s so obvious to see.

‘I want solutions, not stories. And Starmer does not provide solutions. 

‘And when it comes to the gender issue, Rishi Sunak sticks to what he wants to do. He knows where he stands and he shows that. Starmer does not.

‘Tonight has reaffirmed my thoughts that I will be voting Conservative. They win on the tax issue as well.

‘If Starmer has any answers and solutions he’s certainly not sharing them with us. Labour are letdowns.’

‘Sunak is getting the better of him’: Medical student Jon Craven, 23

Medical student Jon Craven, from Norfolk, said that he thought Sunak had got the better of Starmer in the election.

The 23-year-old said that he thought the Labour leader was ‘waffley’ – although he admitted he didn’t think Sunak’s performance would sway the election.

He said: ‘I think it’s very clear that Sunak and Starmer have very different styles to one another. So Sunak is a little bit angrier, he’s a little bit tetchier and he’s a bit more direct.

‘I think this hasn’t come across that well in previous interactions with the public but I think head to head with Starmer, he’s probably getting the better of him this time. 

‘So I think Starmer’s slightly more waffly style isn’t really doing him any favors here. 

‘He’s mostly been on the defensive on topics of immigration, welfare, and he’s had some quite difficult exchanges on tax. Now, there certainly are things that he could be attacking the Conservatives for, and he could be attacking Sunak for, but he’s not quite managed to get in gear and get his attacks over yet. 

‘I think so far, you’d have to say that Sunak has probably had the better night overall. 

‘Is it going to matter for him? Probably unlikely, but overall, I think so far, he’s going to be a lot happier.’

‘The Conservatives are showing no accountability’: Geography student Roshini Jaan, 19, from West London

London student Roshini Jaan, 19, said the candidates’ comments on tackling knife crime resonated most with her.

She said: ‘So far regarding immigration, I believe Labour are the stronger side.

‘I think Starmer’s plan of targeting the gangs who are smuggling people through on small boats is better than sending them to Rwanda, because I think that would take a lot of time and a lot of taxpayers money, whereas targeting the gangs that are actually exploiting these vulnerable people maybe a more ethical and just better way to actually stop people being smuggled through in general.

‘I think, regarding the issue that they were speaking about with women and women’s rights and women’s safety, I think Keir Starmer was avoiding the question a bit. He wasn’t really directly saying how he would make the world a better place, making England a better place for women. 

‘He was really just mentioning all his colleagues that were women, whereas Rishi Sunak was mentioning how he has two children, how he wants to make communities safer for women, and how he wants to improve maternity wards and women’s healthcare. 

‘I think that is very good. Obviously, being young women, it’s very reassuring and good to hear about the interest in women’s safety and our future.’

‘Sunak has come out guns blazing’: Londoner Eldon Davis, 45

Londoner Eldon Davis, 45,said that Sunak had come out with more fire in the debate, as he challenged Starmer

The business owner said: ‘I think that today’s debate has been an interesting one. I think that it was almost felt a bit like it was a bit of a procession for Keir. Sunak definitely feels like he’s got a bit more of a bite to him, and he’s been definitely more challenging, and he’s been more sort of abrupt.

‘He’s come with a bit of a different energy. I don’t know whether or not it’s a fight too late at the end, but certainly he has come out guns blazing. 

‘It started off actually quite difficult in the sense that there’s been a lot of noise at the site. 

‘But I think that there’s been some areas that I think Keir has certainly won. I think the aspect of the immigration side of the argument, I think that his his argument, and his point of view that he’s also been in the position of the CPS lead, has certainly helped him in terms of his ability to show his strength on that side. 

‘And I do also think as well that there was the aspect regarding disabled people coming back to work as well, which was a difficult one for Keir to debate and argue upon. 

‘But I do think that there’s the constant notion of higher taxes that Sunak is pushing and it is sometimes a little bit off point, but I guess he’s kind of brought it down to that aspect.

‘I think it was quite interesting that Keir’s argument around the triple lock, it was, it was quite poor. He didn’t really answer the question. He kind of almost glossed over it and Sunak really pressed him around this question here. 

‘I think Sunak is trying to use the pensioner vote, in many ways, to kind of keep things going well for him. 

‘But I would say that from what I’m seeing over here, it feels a little bit like Sunak is fighting a little bit more to  regain a bit of control but, as I said, I still think that Kier is probably there.’

Speaking after the debate had finished, Eldonsaid that he thought it was a closer debate than previous ones

He said: ‘At the start I found the debate a bit hard to listen to, there was quite a lot of noise. It was difficult to hear and others said the same thing.

‘But once it got in its stride it was good and there was a lot of strong points and interesting debate.

‘I think Keir Starmer’s strategy around immigration is strong and he points out his record at the CPS which is convicting.

‘But I did think he was poor when it came to the triple lock question. He’s not been weak or poor on many issues in any of the debates but I felt he was tonight.

‘Rishi really pressed him on the taxi issue as well. It was very interesting. He was stronger tonight. He went hard on that issue.

‘I thought there was an interesting point from the audience about the standard of both of them.

‘Rishi absolutely had a much better debate. But it was not a disaster from Starmer and I think he has done enough to win the election.’