Sky News’ Kay Burley makes minister squirm as she corners her with easy query

The employment minister was tied in knots on live TV as she was grilled about Labour’s plans to reduce the country’s benefits bill.

Alison McGovern repeatedly refused to say whether someone who is not sick but is signed off work with illness is committing “criminal activity”. She said “people have stolen from the state” as she raised an “absolutely unacceptable” case of an organised crime group of that stole from the Social Security system.

The DWP minister suggested this was what Keir Starmer was referring to when he said the government will “crack down hard on anyone who tries to game the system” this weekend. But she was unable to say whether she considers people who wrongly sign themselves off work to be criminals.

Asked by Sky News’ Kay Burley whether it was “criminal activity”, she said: “There are criminal sanctions within the social security system but what I think people should do is stick to the rules.” Pressed again if it was “criminal activity”, because it was “stealing from the state”, Ms McGovern added: “Well unfortunately people have stolen from the state and we’re bringing forward proposals to deal with that. When it comes to people who are unwell we need a system that helps us support them. People have to stick to the rules.”

In a tense exchange, a frustrated Ms Burley hit back: “Do you just not want to answer the question?” Ms McGovern said: “I think you’re asking me about specific criminal activity which I’ve commented on.” But Ms Burley said: “No, you haven’t. That’s why I keep pressing you on it. My question is, if somebody signs themselves off sick and they’re not sick, they’re stealing… so is it criminal activity?”

Ms McGovern added: “The state has powers of investigation and that’s what should happen. I don’t want to comment on any individual case.” She was interrupted by Ms Burley laughing, saying: “It wasn’t an individual case. It was more of a principle.”

Labour on Tuesday announced plans to overhaul Jobcentres so they become more “focused on people’s skills and careers instead of just monitoring and managing benefit claims”. Key to the changes will be moving away from a “tick box” culture at Jobcentres across the country with £55million of funding to offer a more tailored career advice.

A “youth guarantee scheme” will also be offered to all young people in England between the ages of 18-21, giving them access to an apprenticeship, training or education. Those who fail to take up the offer face being sanctioned.

A record 2.8 million people are out of work due to long-term sickness. The UK remains the only G7 country that has higher levels of economic inactivity now than before the pandemic.

The PM said the government’s reforms will “put an end to the culture of blaming and shaming people who for too long haven’t been getting the support they need to get back into work”. But he came under fire at the weekend after claiming the welfare bill is “blighting our society” and declared war on those who “game the system”. Veteran Labour MP Diane Abbott accused Mr Starmer of “peddling the benefit scrounger mythology“.

Ms McGovern on Tuesday declined to put a figure on how much the Government will reduce the welfare bill by. She told Times Radio: “I’m not going to put a figure on it. Today we’re publishing the framework for reforms in this White Paper, we now need to do a lot of work to bring forward those reforms.”