‘I used to be going to go simple on her… then she opened her mouth’: DAN HODGES sits down with Kemi Badenoch as she reveals fact about her brutal Budget putdown – and the Reeves remark that left her livid

It’s 48 hours since the Budget. But Kemi Badenoch is still steaming at Rachel Reeves. 

‘She seems to think she can create her own alternative reality and that people will just buy it,’ she tells me indignantly. ‘And that’s what I was alluding to in my Budget speech when I said she’s taking the public for fools. We learn now the OBR actually told her, “You don’t necessarily need to do this.” And she did it anyway. That is dishonest. That is yet another example of this woman being out of her depth, and in the wrong job.’

There was actually a brief moment on Wednesday afternoon when Badenoch felt so sorry for Reeves she decided she to go easy on her. ‘I’d just heard the OBR report had leaked,’ she reveals to me. ‘I sat down, looked at her, and I thought, “This is sad – it’s not her fault this thing has leaked.” She looked so downbeat. So I messaged someone and said, “Look, I’m not going to go in too hard.”’

But then Reeves began to speak. ‘And then she started with this tirade! The Tories this, and the Tories that. And I thought, “OK, fine”. So she basically just wound me up. And that meant when I stood up I was very, very angry about the way she blamed everyone.’

I’m sitting in a pub in Monmouth, where the Leader of the Opposition has come to meet people affected by the catastrophic floods, and business leaders impacted by Reeves equally catastrophic tax hikes.

Badenoch could be forgiven for putting her feet up, and basking in the glow of what by common consent was one of the most devastating Budget responses in modern political history. But she’s intent on capitalising on her success.

‘I’m in Wales today,’ she tells me, ‘I’ve got tomorrow with my children and the family, then I’m doing the media round on Sunday.’ It’s a punishing schedule, but one that, even a couple of months ago, would have seemed improbable.

It’s strange to watch the confident, energetic figure empathetically greeting Monmouth’s flood victims – ‘I got caught in a flash-flood a couple of years ago. You don’t realise until it happens, do you? The water is so fast and so cold, you feel like you’re going to be swept away” – and think that most members of her party were predicting she’d soon be ousted.

Dan Hodges speaking to Tory leader Kemi Badenoch during a visit to Monmouthshire in Wales

Mrs Badenoch proved to be a hit last week when she responded to Rachel Reeves’ Budget

But then Comeback Kemi found her feet at PMQs, delivered a barnstorming party conference speech, and eviscerated the hapless Chancellor and Prime Minister. Her allies claim predictions of her demise were always overhyped.

To her credit, she is surprisingly candid about the mistakes that characterised the early days of her leadership. ‘It did take time to adjust,’ she concedes.

‘If there was anything that was really unexpected – which is what makes it hard when you don’t see it coming – it was how quickly people wanted everything to be back where it was.’ People inside her party? ‘Even some of our voters. They wanted a new leader to wipe the slate clean, and everything would be great. Rather than the new leader coming in, and then the hard work beginning. That expectation, of making all the problems go away, was quite hard.’

One particular area she struggled with was her parliamentary jousts with Keir Starmer. And again, Badenoch is refreshingly willing to hold up her hand.

‘I would come out of PMQs thinking, “That was great”. And people would reply, “No, it wasn’t,”’ she admits. ‘So I had to really sit down and think why do I think this is fine, and others don’t?

‘And I worked out that I was overcomplicating. People couldn’t follow my analysis. I thought I was going to lots of different places and setting traps. But no one else could see it.’

She also admits she was guilty of taking Westminster’s weekly Punch and Judy show too seriously. ‘It’s more of a panto than a courtroom.’

Rachel Reeves is still nursing the bruises from the clobbering she received from Badenoch’s rolling pin.

Indeed, the Tory leader has received criticism in some quarters for her brutal savaging of Britain’s first female Chancellor.

But the Conservatives’ fourth female leader is completely unrepentant. In fact, she doubles down.

‘Politics is a bloodsport,’ she states defiantly, ‘but I hate identity politics. I don’t complain about how I’m treated because of my race or my gender.

‘I don’t wake up in the morning thinking about misogyny. And I don’t think you should use that as an excuse for not doing a good job.

‘She knows she’s not doing a good job, so to blame the mansplaining and the misogyny and so on… We’ve got to stop this rubbish.’

Badenoch may not complain about her treatment. But she recognises the glaring hypocrisy underpinning Labour’s gender ID deflection, given their leader’s own proclivity to talk down to his opponents.

‘Keir Starmer is patronising,’ she acknowledges, ‘but I don’t think that’s because I’m a woman. It’s because he’s just patronising. I’ve seen him be like that to loads of other people.’

Despite the transformation in her personal performances, Badenoch’s party still has a mountain to climb. At the last Tory conference, shadow ministers were openly discussing ‘the 22 per cent strategy’ – the belief the best they could hope for was to bump their poll ratings into the low 20s, thereby forcing Nigel Farage to sit down and enter talks over an electoral pact. But Badenoch stubbornly refuses to countenance any deal.

‘Getting to a percentage where I can have a conversation with Nigel Farage? I don’t want to have a conversation with Nigel Farage. I don’t think the policies he has are going to work for this country. Like Keir Starmer he’s underestimating what government is.’

It’s easy to discount the change in Badenoch’s fortunes as the latest temporary swing of the constantly moving political pendulum. But she and her team believe this week was a watershed.

As one of her senior strategists explained: ‘Keir Starmer and Labour have marched off to the Left and vacated the centre-ground. Farage keeps getting pulled further Right. There’s finally some serious space for us to occupy now.’

So as a result, does Badenoch genuinely believe she will be Prime Minister? Does she actually picture it her mind’s eye? ‘I do. If you don’t have that then you can’t get there. It’s not just going to happen by accident.’

She then goes further. For Kemi Badenoch entering Downing Street isn’t simply an ambition, but an imperative.

‘I don’t see how we turn things round unless someone like me is in charge,’ she insists. ‘This is why I did it. It’s not for the riches or the glory or the adulation. It’s, “Right, we’ve got to fix this, and we don’t think anyone else can do it.”’

I’ll be honest, a few months ago I would have found the idea of Prime Minister Badenoch laughable. I’m not laughing at her now. And nor are Rachel Reeves and Keir Starmer.